Credit Where Credit Is Due- Part 5 (Skip Tracing)

Back at Part 3, we had information to offer creditors and collection agencies. Some of that information we already had. We had an old phone number for Junior or Lulubelle, the names of a few friends, names of the adult child's other parent and other relatives. Just where did we get all this information to offer?

It's the Age of Information. It's all around each of us. I'm sure you must spend some time each day on the Internet, or you wouldn't be looking at this. 

That doesn't mean the obvious should be ignored. My ex-son-in-law left behind a great deal of personal possessions, which I described here. One of the items he left behind was an address book, the other the directory from his parents' church in their hometown. When people seek to contact him by calling me first, they are supplied with some of these addresses and phone numbers, including the number of the pastor's office and the number of the volunteer fire department where he claimed to be a member of emergency services (he wasn't, exactly, it turns out, more of an emergency services groupie). Sonny came from a small town, with a small population, where he no longer resides. It's pretty easy to upset that quiet little community by letting collection agencies, credit companies, defrauded customers, and even former lovers now with children call around this bedrock small town and mention his name. While they won't always give up one of their own, they certainly know how to contact one of their own, Sonny, and do, when these things happen. 

Sonny really can't blame me. His mother published his location and his employer recently in the church's monthly newsletter. I know this because I keep an eye on that particular church's monthly newsletter. 

Is it stalking? Let's see...NO. Sonny is married to a woman who threw a fit when she found out my adult daughter wasn't dead, because then she couldn't collect social security for my grandchildren; actually said that to my attorney, screamed it, in fact, when he called Sonny to see if he would sign adoption papers. Sonny and his wife have been proven to have committed fraud against people with special needs children. Sonny and his wife forged checks on the old marital joint checking account Sonny held with my adult daughter when they were married- several of which caught him on camera doing the deed. I still get phone calls for creditors looking for Sonny and his present wife. The church publishes this newsletter online to save mailing costs, and doesn't have it locked down for parishioners only. 

It's not stalking. It's prudently keeping an eye on a situation from a distance, in order to ensure that I am at least prepared should I encounter more creditors, or some other interference at the hands of Sonny. If it makes you feel better, how do you think marketing researchers find information about you these days? Your name turned up in a datebase or on a sheet for the product. They go out there and Google their little hearts out trying to find out more about you. It only becomes stalking when the person doing the research starts to threaten or harass the subject in question. I have no desire to stir up trouble. I do desire to stop creditors to whom I owe nothing from calling my house.

My Lulubelle, you will recall, co-rented a storage unit with us, for her things when she went through her homeless and semi-homeless phase. When she didn't pay, I brought the rent up-to-date, cleaned it out of what I wanted (mostly the cream-colored towels and photos of the kids), and informed the storage manager that I wouldn't pay any more. In the unit was an address book, a scrapbook, some other stuff which identified friends and in-laws. It's fairly easy to find her friends, so they too can share the love of creditors.  

It doesn't take a lot of money or a lot of time to find some people. Most people are creatures of habit. They like to be comfortable. They like to stay in the same place, if possible, and if not possible, those related to them tend to stay where they planted themselves 10, 20, 30 years ago. If they went to a particular school, they often join the alumni associations; ditto military service.

And a lot of people are just plain stupid when it comes to participation on online game sites and message boards. They tend to use variants of their names, nicknames, even their actual names. A good example of this is the time my ex-son-in-law disappeared, leaving no alleged trace, and no child support, either. The government couldn't find him, and so couldn't a lot of other people. Boo-hoo-hoo. I found him pretty easily on MySpace. I didn't violate terms of service to find him. He was out there for all the world to see. 

Sometimes, however, all the free stuff doesn't work. Facebook flakes out, Whitepages.com has no record, and Google only turns up idiocy. The answer, then, is two-fold: the Government, and paid searchers.

Intelius, USA-People-search.com, Spokeo, yansi.com, Pipl, 123- they all give some form of information on the person, and can give more for a fee. Sometimes the fee is really ridiculous, and sometimes the fee is really reasonable. I like Intelius, as it gives the names of the people related to the subject at hand. Those related individuals, in turn, can be researched next. Intelius and USA-People-search.com information, however, can be a bit stale.   

Once you have a rough idea where the person went, you can check government databases, right in the comfort of your own living room, to see if there's any trace of the person. Not every county in the country has a web site, and not every county court has its records online; a great many, however, do. Most are free, some require registration.

It's helpful to copy and paste this information into a spreadsheet or document, formatting it later into a letter or some such you can copy as you need to do so, and send it off to the creditor or collection agency when it's rep calls. Remember, don't put your name on it, and certainly don't put your address. These agencies talk to each other, sell information to each other as well, and if you put your address on it, you will soon receive enough dunning letters to repaper the biggest room in your house.        

Why can't the collection agencies and creditors do all this? The people who work for such businesses aren't detectives, and they certainly aren't grandparents with an axe to grind and grandchildren to protect. Most of the employees of such businesses are in it for the short haul, until they get another, real job, or until they pay off whatever it is they've bought that they couldn't afford. And let's face it, it's so much easier to bother you.

Credit Where Credit Is Due- Part 4 (ID Theft)

You might find, to your horror, that it isn't your adult child for whom the phone rings, but you and/ or your spouse. 

I am not immune to this. I was minding my own business in the big-box store, buying groceries while my husband, who was back at work after a horribly long illness and recovery of months, did his thing at one of his client locations, as he was still not cleared to drive the car. My cell phone rang, and there was exceptionally clear cell coverage that day in that particular store! 

"I need to speak with the Mister! It's urgent!"
"Well, this is Mrs. the Mister. May I help you?"
"Yeah." Not "yes" but "yeah." "You owe $1,368.72 to the Dumb Dork Loan Company for a payday loan he received on December 22, 20##. You will pay today!" 


Now, at that time, we had many debt collectors calling not only for our Lulubelle, but for unresolved charges from the hospitalization and treatment, where we still argued with the insurance company as to whom would pay what and how much. But I assure you, as faithful followers of Dave Ramsey, we would never even THINK of getting a payday loan! 


I told the man on the phone that much. He then proceeded to rip me a new one, accuse me of getting the loan in the Mister's name and the fraud that entailed, told me the Mister would be in jail tonight, and ended his tirade with, "And I'm sending deputies now to arrest him at work right now!"

If I didn't know what I know about the Fair Debt Collections Act, and about civil versus criminal law, even though I am not an attorney, I would probably would have been frightened out of my mind. Instead, I started laughing. 

"You think it's funny I'm going to arrest your husband?" the man demanded belligerently.

"I think it's funny," I retorted, "That, given the nature of his work, you think you know enough about him at this point in time to know his exact location to arrest him!" I knew the law, and I knew this guy was full of it. He couldn't arrest the Mister on a civil charge, and the Mister would've had to have a GPS chip implanted on himself for this doofus to find him, giving a lecture in a hall full of people.

"Well, I am, right now," the man replied, without as much venom.

"Well, you better have the deputies bring a wheelchair, because he can't walk right now. You'll be doing this to a man who's just gotten over a major illness, and is giving a lecture in a hall full of people, all witnesses to false arrest. Oh- And I suppose you should call our attorney, so he can gather together bail and take your name, so he can file charges against you and your company."

"You have an attorney?" he asked, as if surprised that people have attorneys.

"Why yes. I'll give you his name and number, and then you quit bothering me. As it happens, we have an adult daughter, as well as an ex-son-in-law, who seem to delight in not paying their bills, as well as either opening accounts in our names, or selling our information to others, one of the two." I gave him the information, and rung off with, "Don't you ever call me again!" 

Yet the man did call again. Three times. I now had his number, the idiot. The first time, he called me to tell me that my attorney had said it was OK for us to pay the debt. The second time, he called to scream at me because my attorney called him, explained the law to him, and let him know point-blank that he wasn't getting doodly but a lawsuit if the harassment continued. The third time, he just left a string of obscenities on my voicemail. I then called my carrier and got a new phone number immediately.

So, you see, you are not alone in this. This happens to people all over the world, every day. 

Much has been written on ID theft. I'll supply you with links at the end of this post to assist you. 

But, the best advice I can give you now is to get Zander Insurance Identity Protection before your identity is stolen. After your identity is stolen, it's very hard to get the protection this affords. 

My second piece of advice is, as always, if it gets too complicated, or you're ushered into court, hire the best attorney you can afford. Interview at least three attorneys, and go with the person you feel will do the best job. Do NOT use your custody or adoption attorney for this, even if he or she doesn't specialize! Get somebody who knows about ID theft, finance, contract law as it pertains to credit and banks, and possible bankruptcy as a last resort. Do not be suckered into a bankruptcy immediately, by the way. Think before you act.
***************************************************
Creditors cannot arrest you for civil actions, which is what debt collection is. The alternate of this is simply that stealing your identity and using it to commit fraud is indeed a crime, and is punishable.

Visa's rules for ID theft. 

MasterCard's rules for ID theft.

Discover Card's rules for ID theft. 

American Express' rules for ID theft. 

Article on family and friends ID theft.  

How ID theft works. 

More on family ID theft.  


Freezing credit reports.

Dave Ramsey on ID theft:

• of children's identification.
• Dad's a thief!
• Mom's a thief! 
• warning signs. 
• dealing with debt collectors. 
• cleaning up ID theft.
• Lulubelle and Junior behavior. 
• dealing with relatives who are ID thieves. 
• lying credit card company in the face of ID theft. 
• collection agencies asking for your personal information when you question them.

Each individual jurisdiction has different laws for identity theft, check forgery and the like. If you find you are a victim of identity theft, or somebody commits an act such as forging your signature, go to your local police or sheriff department immediately and file a crime report. Get a copy of the report as soon as possible, and make a bunch of copies. When you are bothered by the calls, send the company or agency a copy of the police report, with a cover letter, return receipt requested.
   


.

Credit Where Credit Is Due- Part 3 (Giving Information)

Now then, you may want to help a collection agent in the search for Lulubelle or Junior. There are a few good reasons for doing so:

• Unless you are dealing with an arrogant son of a gun whose only purpose is to collect the cash at all costs, you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar or poop. Your grandmother said it, your mother said it, you say it now and then. It's just as true today as it was 100 years ago. 
• It certainly gets this particular agency off your back! This is especially true if, like me, you have a Junior or Lulubelle who's racked up quite a lot of charges with a lot of companies, and now has a lot of collection agencies looking for him or her.
• If this your adult child's debt, they certainly owe it. If somebody has committed ID theft using your name, I should hope you'd want that person caught, no matter who it is. It IS a crime, and it is punishable by fines, restitution, and/ or imprisonment (more on ID theft in Part 4).  

And some of these agents are just nice people. They sit in a cubicle, day in, day out, earning money at a job (can't really call it a profession- high turnover rate), catching flack from people for the fact that these people haven't paid their debts. So, if a sweet, middle-aged voice spends a little time with them on the phone, they often visit a bit. And that visiting can share some information with you, about your Lulubelle or Junior, even though it might not be strictly legal. 

That collections agent or representative? They probably won't be there in six months. Debt collection, even on its best days, is an emotionally draining job. Nobody is going to come after you for:

• Asking oh-so-casually if you can compare the address you have with the one the collection agent has; ditto social security numbers, phone numbers, places of employment, etc.
• Asking the name of the collection agency. Number 1, they are supposed to tell you. Number 2, you might want to see if it is an agency that has called you before this (different agents with the same collection agency handle different companies).
• Asking, if the agency has come up again, for which company the collection agent collects. Sometimes- not often but sometimes- the agent will not only give you company, but the amount owed. If the adult child owes you money, or you are trying to collect child support, that amount is a good indicator of possible information on what the adult child is earning these days, and where if you don't already know.

So, offer up a bit of information on the adult kid! Give them the last phone number you had for Lulubelle, even if it doesn't work any more. It could take the agent to Junior's former phone company, or the next phone carrier. If you have it, offer to confirm Lulubelle's social security number, because dear Lulubelle has not been above lying so far, and might have changed a few digits in hers to obtain credit in the first place. It will help in skip tracing (a process we'll discuss in part 5). If you know of any of Junior's friends, be sure to mention those, and their addresses and phone numbers as well, if you just happen to have that information. Let them in on the love from collection agencies. This is especially true if you have an ex-spouse who tends to blame the adult child's behavior on you, and any of those ex-in-laws as well.  

You might even feel the agent was nice enough to send the agency a follow-up letter. You don't have to get fancy. Don't include your name, and do NOT include your address! The object of this is to have collection agencies quit calling you, not have more of them call you. Just mention that you spoke with So-and-so on the phone on the date in question, and this is the information you offered that person. Stick a stamp on the envelope addressed to the agency, and you know you've done all you can to stop your wayward adult child from being a deadbeat.

Credit Where Credit Is Due- Part 2 (the Law and You)

What you need to know first: You are NOT, NOT, NOT responsible for your adult child's debt. You did not create this debt. It is not your job to pay it back. There is no law that says you have to pay it back. You do NOT, NOT, NOT owe any of your adult children's bills, any more than you owe any adult relative's or relation's debts.  You do not owe your grandchildren's prior debts, even if you have adopted them (and if you have not, you do not owe their present debts out of your own money). The exception to this is the Health Care Act, which means you must pay for health insurance for your adult child through age 26, if you have health insurance. But that will come directly out of your paycheck, and no nasty individual will call you to demand payment.

Moving along, this is the Fair Debt Collections Practices Act and its FAQ. You will see no way, no how the Government expects you to pay for that wild weekend in Denver you didn't attend, or the DVD club that extended your adult child 10 free DVDs for $162.85  postage and handling, or your adult child's satellite TV complete with the Porno Channel.

Also spelled out- how the collector is supposed to behave when he or she calls. Is it how debt collectors actually behave? Well, some do, and some don't. You will see, however, that they can call you, and ask for information as to the whereabouts of your wayward Lulubelle or Junior. They aren't supposed to blab about the amount of the debt. They aren't supposed to threaten you with jail, because nobody, not even the adult child, is going to jail over a debt. They can't call you before 8 AM, or after 9 PM at night.

Your first line of defense is INFORMATION. If you are dealing with a relatively professional individual, you should ask for the name of the collection agency, and its address. You can explain that this is your adult child, you know your rights under the Fair Debt Collections Act; that you do not wish to be called again on the matter, and that you will be sending a letter, return receipt requested, that they do not call you again, either here or at your place of employment.

When you send that letter, they cannot bother you any more. Period. They might, but they aren't supposed to do that by law. At that point, it behooves you to start a log, recording the date, time, name of the person who called, and what was said. You may even rig up the land-line with a recording device, so you have proof of what was said. You can find many an attorney these days whose practice is devoted to representing individuals who have had dealings with collection agencies that behave badly. And the FTC and your state attorney general are certainly interested in collection agencies who don't follow the law and try to frighten old people out of their money. It often takes them months to respond, and even more months to deal with the situation, but they are interested.

Or, you may just want to make sure you have caller ID on all phones, cell and land-line, and not bother. That's what the reject list on your cell phone does. Learn to use it. Eventually, they will stop calling. If you accidentally pick up the line and there is the collector again, hang up immediately. There's no law that says you must speak to anybody on your phone. And don't be so darned polite to people who, 100 years ago, the butler wouldn't have let through the front door!

The obnoxious, who won't take no for an answer, are another matter entirely. I have to admit, I've had these call me, and I kind of enjoy playing with these. But you have to understand, I am SO fed up with them, their inability to listen, and their extremely blatant lies, on top of my Lulubelle's actions, that I just can't resist. 

You can, of course, just hang up on these, as well. If you have an attorney handling the matter, they are supposed to call the attorney once you've informed them. But they don't listen. Seems as if they are hard of hearing. 

Therefore, if these sons of guns won't listen, particularly in the case of bottom feeders and/or the extreme jerks, take a tip from the olden days, when perverts used to make random (or not) calls to frighten women, with obscene language and heavy breathing: Get a big coach's whistle, or if you lack lung power these days, an air horn. Calm yourself. Hold the phone or receiver up to the whistle or air horn, and BLAST AWAY, LONG, LOUD AND HARD. I've heard of the alternative, leaving the phone or receiver next to the very loud TV or radio speaker.

You will have a certain sense of satisfaction, if nothing else. And the bully in a cubicle 1,200 miles away will think twice before calling you again!  

Credit Where Credit Is Due- Part 1

You are minding your own business, watching TV, cooking dinner, taking a nap, when the phone rings (could be the land-line, could be your cell). You don't recognize the number, if you have caller ID, yet you answer. 


If the person on the other end is a professional, you're told something such as, "I'm Ms. Jones from the Green Money Collection Agency, and I'm looking for INSERT NAME," which happens to be the name of your adult child, whose biological progeny inhabit your home. "The purpose of this call is to collect a debt."

Perhaps the person on the other end is not so professional. If this is the case, perhaps you will be treated to, "INSERT NAME?" with no time to respond. "You owe X Corp three thousand, five hundred and forty two dollars and sixty-two cents! You are a scumbag who hasn't paid what you owe! If you don't tell me you'll be paying that money TODAY, by wire transfer, I will have the sheriff at your house TODAY, to arrest you and take you to jail. I'll have you arrested AT WORK, you deadbeat, and your mug shot will be on the Internet for everybody to see! Got that? Give me your bank account or credit card number NOW!"  


When you try to explain to the screaming maniac at the other end that you are indeed not your adult child, and you're sorry he or she is so angry, you'll receive in reply something such as, "Well, you ARE his mother, aren't you? I'm an attorney, and I can have INSERT NAME jailed like that! You need to help him out! What kind of a mother are you, to raise such a deadbeat! What's your credit card number?"

And there are all sorts of debt collectors in between!

Then too, there are what are known as "bottom feeder" collection agencies. These are companies that buy bad, written-off or even already paid debt from companies that extend credit, or even from other debt collectors, for pennies on the dollar. They then try to force people to pay it, and they don't care if your husband is Joseph Johnson, Sr., with a different social security number and age. They are trying to make big money out of a very small investment. They are often cruel to those they call, totally ignore the law, and have been known to scare old folks into giving up their bank account numbers just to keep the people working there from constantly calling and screaming at them.

To make matters worse, there is identity theft. This is where somebody, someplace has gotten hold of some of your identifying information, and opens credit in your name. It is most tragic that stranger ID theft exists. It goes completely against the grain of familial bonds to note that more commonly, it is indeed somebody to whom you are related who has stolen your name, social security number, address, etc. and charged up a bunch of stuff in your name.

So, that professional person or screaming jerk may call and ask for you! And you know for a FACT that you don't drive a 2012 Audi with big payments, or attended the Sturgis, ND motorcycle rally, and you would never, EVER get a subscription to five magazines about sex! 

You're dealing with thugs, pure and simple. If the debt collector is professional, even nice, you are still dealing with a thug who stole your identity, or sold it to somebody else. And as hard as it may be, it is probably that adult child who thinks he or she is entitled to what you, and/ or your spouse, has earned.

But we can learn to successfully deal with this.   

Count your blessings.

It's easy to get bogged down in the fertilizer of Life. You're not as young as you used to be, after all. The kids can run you ragged, and then there's the adult child who caused all this, who still might be involved in the situation. Money's tight these days for everybody, and getting kids what they need is hard enough, let alone getting kids what they want. 


It sounds trite, but count your blessings. Count them on your fingers in a quiet room, or list them on a sheet of paper, or type them out. But take time to think about what's good in your life, and in your world. You'll be a lot happier if you do; at the very least, you'll see there's a reason or two to hang in there.

I'm not yelling, I just have a loud voice.

It never occurred to me people assumed I was angry or yelling at them. It's so hard to be heard above the din. I grew up with five siblings, and have six total. My father had hearing issues. I was in the military. It just never occurred to me that people thought I was angry or upset, because I'm neither. I just want to be heard!

I have no problem speaking to large groups of people. Put a microphone in my hand or on my person, and I'm a chattering fool. And I'm generally enthusiastic. I've come to realize all that enthusiasm can be sometimes misconstrued as anger.

It's hard for me to communicate that to kids. I bet some other grandparents are experiencing the same issue, especially grandfathers who don't realize just how loud they can be with a hearing problem. Kids themselves are loud enough, and getting things across to them without tears and overreaction can be a challenge.

SO, in an effort to make things might quieter, calm down thousands of kids, and help grandparents raising grandkids everywhere communicate effectively, some tips: 

• STOP. If this isn't an issue of immediate danger, stop what you're doing. Just stand or sit there. Say nothing. Do nothing. Wait until everybody is looking at you, wondering why the heck you're not doing anything. Then, say something. Quietly. As softly as possible. Only bring up the volume as necessary. 
• THE SIGNAL. Anybody who's run a scout troop or the like knows to place one's hand high high above one's head and say, "When the hand goes up..." to which the scouts reply, "...the mouth goes shut." You don't have to use the universal signal of your hand above your head. Come up with your own signal that it's time to quiet down. 
• MAKE IT A GAME. Ever heard of the quarter game, the dime game or the nickel game? If a child can be quiet for 5/10/15 minutes without one peep, that child gets a coin. There are dozens of ways to make children listen to you, and to be quiet. One of my favorites I learned from a first grade teacher. It's called "Marshmallow Toes" and it involves simply walking quietly on tip-toe. The name makes it fun.
• POLL AND CLARIFY. If you're not sure, ask, and try to ask neutrally, without making the kid feels as if this answer hinges on all that is holy. I learned this when I did a tour with the Census Bureau. Most questions have a dozen answers. Make sure you have the right answer.  "Is this what you're telling me?" "Do I have this right?" "Do you have another idea on how we can do this?"
• LOOK ME IN THE EYE. Look the kid or kids in the eye if at all possible. Focus on what they are saying. Make them look you in the eye. There is nothing so frustrating as not being able to read a face simply because the kid is talking to the wall or the floor! With the hearing challenged, even those equipped with various sound input devices, it is imperative that we look at them while we speak, and in turn look at them while they speak.
• SPIT IT BACK. "OK, then (smile), you're telling me you need a new notebook because you used up the old one. OK then. "So, what you're saying is, you have to finish the report by Friday. Is that right?" No need to grill the kid. But spitting back what was just said clarifies without shouting what is actually being said. No need for sarcasm. No need for defensive moves. Just check it out. It will save you yelling later on.

.